An Honest Conversation On The Problem With NFTs & Cryptocurrency, with @Folding Ideas

In this episode, Chelsea speaks with Dan Olson from @Folding Ideas to discuss his recent explainer video on the danger of crypto …


  1. I like what you said here about viewing it as just tokens – disconnecting the monetary value.

    Another idea would be to view risk in terms of the amount of labor required to make back the amount of money at risk rather than the absolute value.

    So a person who makes $20k/mo and puts $10k into crypto is taking way less risk than someone who makes much less but diligently saves up $10k over 5 years.

    $10k != $10k

  2. it's not really related to the rest of the video, but…

    11:50 "Replacing mayors with CEOs… Presidents are a bad idea, CEOs are a worse one"

    I don't agree with this.

    The leadership of any organization/entity, as well as the organizational structure, can be beneficial or detrimental to the entity ( be that a company, city, whatever). These entities often have many stakeholder groups, and some of them may have conflicting interests. So an action that may be "good" for one group of stakeholders may be "bad" for another group.

    In order to have a desirable outcome:
    1. You need a to decide upon a desirable outcome by balancing the needs of various stakeholder groups
    2. You need to get the right people in the positions where they can be most effective.
    3. Dis/Incentive structures need to be designed in a way that prevents the goals from being undermined due to outside influence.

    Some related books on the topic:
    For Theory:
    The Dictator's Handbook,
    Good to Great,

    Application (Honestly this Could Be From Just About Anywhere, but here are some immediate examples ):
    How Asia Works,
    States of Credit: Size, Power, and the Development of European Polities,

    The Sad Fall of a Philippine Steel Giant 12:15 (Buyout owners were traders, not producers (lack of experience))

  3. As an IT-architect my view is that software need to be able to own standardized money, votes, tokens and other value bearers in order to increase digitalization. We also need identity frameworks where the individual control the personal data.

    These are missing components in today’s software frameworks. Instead we have clunky add ons such as private payment networks and tech giants capitalizing on our personal data and identities.

    It's not stranger then that we need to have rebar in the concrete to build better bridges. Better building materials to build

    This is what this is about.

    And people are going to use it for good things and for bad things. Just lika rebar.

  4. Do you seriouslly argue that fiat currency and cantillon effect benefits average Joe?
    Did you consider that monetary premium moves into housing market and basically monetize average Joe's basic need?
    Bitcoin does not have any intrinsic value, and that is a good thing, because it does not deprive people from basic needs, if they haven't one.

  5. It's interesting to me that what Dan recommended as probably the most ethical way to use cryptocurrencies and the crypto-ecosystem is also what he described as the way of using those ecosystems that's going to drive you mad if you take that course of action.

    The crypto-ecosystem, and cryptocurrencies, seem to me to be a zero-sum game. Any money someone makes is money that someone else has lost. That means that, in order for the value to go up, someone else has to be willing to pay more, and there's only so much more that people can be willing to pay before only the super-rich are able to afford to pay that more – and given that investment in cryptocurrencies and the crypto-ecosystem already favours the rich, either cryptocurrencies will inevitably become something that only the super-rich can even consider using, or the bottom will fall out of the market and everyone invested in them will lose all the money they spent to become invested. Long story short: Cryptocurrencies, and the crypto-economy, are a bubble, and one that will burst either when lots of people stand to lose a life-affecting quantity of money, or when a far smaller number of people who can afford to lose truly obscene quantities of money stand to lose those truly obscene quantities – but those people are, most likely, too savvy to have mentally bought into the crypto-ecosystem, unless they're the ones operating the cryptocurrencies or NFT projects.

  6. Chelsea's mike has a bad pop problem. She might be able to get away with moving it back from her mouth a couple of inches, or may benefit from getting the microphone a pop filter screen.

    Excellent interview. Have watched Dan's video twice.

    Wouldn't mind seeing a multi-episode long-form of whatever Dan has to say on the subject, despite that probably being a big ask on Dan, given all the other things he likely wants to cover. I agree it takes such a long form, because the complexity is reality, hype, bug and feature, so resists simpler dissection.

  7. The comparison to MLM is absolutely spot-on, but the difference is that at the end of the day something like Amway or Mary Kay is ultimately trading in a real product that has value. It's not worth what people are expected to pay for it, but people historically have always been willing to overpay to some extent for cosmetics because of branding and avertisement.

    An MLM scheme that sold art pieces and required you to use extremely complicated techno money to buy wouldn't survive today.

  8. To be honest, you guys making this a ''left'' vs ''Right'' issue has only made me more interested in Crypto and NFTs, all these ideas of ''Inclusivity'' in the economic seems incredibly stupid, specifically the idea that there is something wrong with a deflationary economy because those that came in earlier are better off than those that came later.

    Like dude, that applies to EVERYTHING in life. What are you going to do, implement full blown Communism?
    If the opposite of Crypto and NFTs are Commies, you ideology is doomed. Seriously.

  9. No offence but 16m in and there's no real explanation of why Cryptos and NFTs are bad beyond restating that they're bad and that they're deflationary. Even then we aren't really told why they are deflationary. It's a shame because I am pretty keen on hearing some.

  10. Just watched Dan Olson's "line goes up" and fuck me was it depressing these people just out to steal and scam poor people's money every crypto enthusiast and nft person now seems like either a blatant fool or a fucking predator. What's most depressing is it's not even people with no means doing it from a place of desperation like they have to steal to survive but rather complete soulless predation to get rich.

  11. Best channel on the web. This guy is amazing! Love the content, attitude, and wardrobe. Excellent content and not complicated for me, been investing in crypto and i believe in my methods.😀😀👍👍 i'll take any investing advice or Ideas or mentorship reccomdations

  12. Our world has only changed due to technology. Nothing about our society has really changed. There are a few of us, who think they deserve to lord over the rest of us. Excessive wealth is psychologically damaging, and people like Bezos, and Musk would like to be the new god-king Pharaohs.

    Cryptocurrency is merely a vessel for control and power. Our world is pathetic, and our species doesn't leave me with much hope. A few bad apples, and ruin the world for everyone else.

    We need systems that actually help the majority, but the minority has too much power over "change". Just look at the USA. The few, rule the many.

  13. I listened to the whole video im a pro crypto person I hold crypto as of right now I have made money and lose money also with all honesty I think this is a reality that the crypto market is a speculative bubble prices go up and down so fast there no rules in place to establish a well regulated market that why things like the fall of terra Luna happened which a saw fall on slow motion and people like it’s creator Do Kwon get a away with it without getting punish while destroying lives in the process I can say that I’m a Cowboy 🤠 on the Wild West of crypto I have made peace with it and Ill be ok if a get burn 🔥 or destroy because I am betting with money I’m willing to lose not my rent or car payments what is really sad its that some people still don’t get this and are betting their savings or much more in this wild market I would love for all of us to win but sadly it ain’t truth the truth is that if the crypto space make there will be a mass extinction of cryptocurrencies that the moment some people will realize the bubble has burst but by them it’ll be too late

  14. People generated huge amounts of wealth during the gold standard despite not being in at the start. He's wrong on a lot of things, but that one's the most obvious. His solution to a "predatory" economy is to empower people to have the government predate on others on their behalf. That's a childish response, and is ideologically connected to the conception that if someone's richer than you when you're born then your life will be a failure. He needs to ditch a lot of bad ideas and start over.

  15. People don’t learn thou and MLMs still exist and make money. As long as human psychology stays the same then MLM style business and investments will continue. Tulip mania, Mary Kay, NASDAQ….it’s all the same.

  16. Look, NFT is obviously a scam, but crypto itself has some really needed aspect of this. For example, it all allows people from countries with strict oppressive regimes to donate to their favorite political activists and youtubers without being caught by the police for "supporting the extremists".

  17. Let me preface by saying….I loved the doc…now, I am also a bit skeptical about this dudes motivation to bash a speculative asset that he took much time to research. Only to tear it down….and also to expose and diffuse the "sophistry" surrounding the tech and how the charge of "you just don't understand" is just hand waving. He's clearly smart enough to dig THAT deep. But when asked if he has a solution to the world's financial problems…he admits he doesn't have a clue….

    And my major gripe with the work is he doesn't try to even play devil's advocate or give context to the space with some of the other sectors crypto is attempting to disrupt or how they MAY be useful.

    Why not offer a solution?? Why not even TRY? All he does is spout his idealistic rhetoric.

    And as far as the host??? Her axe-to-grind is even more obvious and in plain view. She's sitting on the shoulders of his brilliant piece of work.

  18. trying to label crypto as ‘right wing’ is so simplistic. there is no more ‘right wing’ there are lefties in crypto because ‘fuck the system’.

    trump broke the right wing. bernie losing broke some of the left. those labels aren’t that clear anymore.

  19. it's hilarious to me that Dan, a professional youtuber and professional camera person, has such terrible video quality in this. like… wtf Dan? come on get your zoom together! 🙂

  20. If you compare what he's saying to the dot com bubble, then it makes no sense. Amazon went for 100 dollars a share to 6 dollars a share, and 20 something years later it's crazy high and still a good investment. Crypto will be the same, most of these companies won't make it but a few will, just like in the 2000's

  21. I'm not a supporter of crypto, but his ideas on deflation and inflation are not good economics. For instance, inflation destroys savings, forcing savers to gamble their money to earn interest. Once inflation runs out of control, the savings are just lost, as in Weimar Germany or Zimbabwe. We currently have a system of massive inflation which the authorities are attempting to restrict only to the financial markets; hence the obscene levels of money in those markets, which provides ever greater spending power to The Few.

    The natural state of (a fixed quantity of) money in an economy experiencing growth is a slow deflation. This reflects the real changing value of the money unit. This causes falling prices, which is good for savers and good for consumers- the falling price of computer hardware that has revolutionised our lives is deflation (productive growth in that sector was much faster than the general inflation run by the central banks).

    My point is these things are complicated and "deflation creates Robber Barons" is very simplistic. American lives improved dramatically during the Gold Standard and Gold Exchange Standard. The latter was abandoned in 1971 for unrestrained fiat, and one can argue that (some sectors like computing aside) things have not gone well for real incomes since.

  22. NFTs are bullshit. Bitcoin is a way to save the fruits of your labor forever. I hate that all this other shit gets confused with Bitcoin. I think you need to realize that Bitcoin is not going to be currency. It is digital gold. And it is happening.

  23. 26:0 I agree with 99% of the topics that you guys talk about but forgiving student debt is one that I just can’t get my head around. What does that mean for future students ?? They can get in debt? What about the people who worked hard and saved every penny to pay off their loans as fast as possible. Do they get a refund???? Like its insane. You cant just forgive debt. At that point lets forgive mortgages. That way I win too!

  24. I think it is wrong to say the value of a crypto is $100 max. If there are millions of contracts in a currency than the value of a unit can be calculated of the average value of the traded assets in numbers of a other currency per used units of crypto. But in the crypto there are not enough real world transactions traded with crypto to bind the value of the crypto to real world things. No one knows which is a good price of let's say an apple in bitcoin.

  25. 29:00 You might find NFT's and cryptocurrency childish, compared to other "horrible financial swindles", but the impact on people's lifes is, I think, a lot less. Especially people who are not interested in any of it. Other "horrible financial swindles" impact the REAL economy. Impact housing prices. Impact interest on your savings.

  26. I’ve been subscribed to folding ideas for years and I was elated to see he did a 2 hour video about NFTs and overjoyed to see how viral it’s gone

  27. Not just the spam posters but even the better experts do not explain how billions are made from jpegs any of us can copy?

  28. Its funny i find a lot of similarities between the crypto world and where the PC gaming world is right now, where game devs promise big games in exchange for needing funds to get through alpha's beta's and allow players to "get involved and make decisions" as they back things, kickstarters, all this dream selling. Often turns into nightmares.
    Bad for business.

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